Tractor & AGDA

Tractor & AGDA

15.02.12

Education

To support the inaugural Tractor course in Melbourne, AGDA Victoria has announced it will award the top graduating student an AGDA membership. The top graduating student also receives Tractor’s Scholarship which not only includes the shiny ‘T’ award but also a refund of half the tuition fees. The Scholarship is awarded at the completion of the course and is selected by the industry practitioners that taught the group.

The Melbourne Industry course is kicking off on March 5th and applications are still open. Don’t miss your chance to work with and learn from some of the industry’s top creatives including Jim Antonopoulos - Tank Branding, Dan Johnson - Hoyne Design, Atia Cader - Paper Stone Scissors, Michaela Webb - Studio Round, David Lancashire - David Lancashire Design, Garry Emery - Emery Studio, Brett Phillips - 3 Deep and Andrew Ashton - Work Art Life by Studio Pip and Co.

For further information on Tractor go to www.tractordesignschool.com.au

Comments
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  • Eris 16th February 2012 @ 1.33 PM

    Is this offer exclusive to Tractor students only? if so why?

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  • chickyboo 16th February 2012 @ 10.12 PM

    Any sort of support should be appreciated and not frown upon don't you think?

    Im sure that the design school that you go to have sponsors for certain events such as your grad show and it's most likely that they don't support every other design school - but it doesn't mean that they don't support the industry. Im not an expert to know how sponsorship works, but I would assume that the school would have to approach the sponsors for sponsorship.

    So if you feel so passionate about it, perhaps you could talk to your uni/college and AGDA about supporting your grad show to reward top students. Give AGDA some slack. I really don't feel like being knit picky and compare everything to everything else and say its unfair because its not the same.

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  • chickyboo 16th February 2012 @ 6.00 PM

    I believe it is exclusive to the Tractor Scholarship Winner only as part of the prize...

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  • Eris 16th February 2012 @ 7.48 PM

    Yes I understand that, but why is it that only top Tractor students have a chance to get a free AGDA membership? What about all the other top students form all the other design colleges?

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  • chickyboo 16th February 2012 @ 7.58 PM

    Because the Tractor Scholarship Winner in Melbourne is special :)

    If you want to try and gain a free AGDA membership, perhaps you can join the AGDA student council through your college? Just a suggestion.

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  • chickyboo 16th February 2012 @ 7.59 PM

    Or you can always join Tractor ;)

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  • Eris 16th February 2012 @ 8.09 PM

    Sounds a bit odd to me as I thought AGDA was supposed to represent the industry as a whole, not be biased towards one college.
    I think all top students from all colleges are just as important as the next and they all contribute to making our design industry special.

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  • chickyboo 16th February 2012 @ 8.32 PM

    So, perhaps AGDA VIC wants to support Tractor. I don't see anything wrong with that. I understand your point, but shouldn't we be looking at what we've got instead of what we don't? AGDA VIC sponsoring a prize for Tractor could be seen as a first step... Better to have AGDA VIC supporting a design college like Tractor than no college at all.

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  • Mish 16th February 2012 @ 9.12 PM

    Still biased to me

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  • aistrope 16th February 2012 @ 9.51 PM

    Perhaps have your school talk to AGDA. All the contacts are available on the site. I'm sure Tractor has been proactive in looking out for their students is all.

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  • Mish 16th February 2012 @ 10.20 PM

    thanks aistrope and chickyboo. didn't think of it that way

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  • zack486 17th February 2012 @ 8.21 AM

    i can't believe thats the prize - lol

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  • chickyboo 17th February 2012 @ 2.47 PM

    lol :P

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  • Eris 17th February 2012 @ 4.18 PM

    Based on a few of the comments l thought it only wise to do a little research so the pieces of the puzzle become much clearer to me.
    Chickyboo - considering you are on AGDA student council one would hope you would lobbying for all students.
    l appreciate that Tractor may have been proactive in looking out for their students and this must be encouraged. But on further inspection the correlation of people involved with Tractor and people involved with AGDA l am not sure how much lobbying was needed, it appears like the same organisation.
    Maybe AGDA should practice its on Code of Ethics.
    "Our Code of Ethics is here to establish what constitutes 'fair play'. It is intended to provide protection for both designers and clients from unethical business practices and the havoc that can be caused by unwitting ignorance."
    Tractor should be renamed AGDA school of Design.

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  • KenSmith 17th February 2012 @ 8.25 PM

    Eris, you're making an awfully big fuss over a prize that's only worth around $100 to $170.

    And considering that Tractor is more of a 'finishing school', I disagree with you on the point of all graduates being equal.

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  • chickyboo 17th February 2012 @ 8.55 PM

    Considering that Tractor are still looking for candidates for the Melbourne course, I think that the AGDA VIC membership is that extra nudge for students to apply. Nothing with that.

    Yes, I was part of the student council last year as a representative for my uni. If you want to do something about AGDA rewarding high achievers from your uni, then no one is stopping you.

    I think the code of ethics refers to the protection of both designers and clients from unethical business practices. What is unethical here?

    I have no idea what you're going on about 'Tractor should be renamed AGDA school of Design'.

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  • Eris 18th February 2012 @ 8.48 AM

    Maybe l am not making myself clear or am l the only person who see's it like this but...
    l guess what l am trying to say is that it is not so much about the AGDA Vic membership PRIZE as it is about THE PRINCIPLE of AGDA VIC lobbying exclusively for one educational institution - this seems more like advertising.

    It appears that AGDA VIC are exclusively supporting Tractor so that individual board members and ex-board members will financially benefit from Tractor's success. l am sure that is not 'fair play', 'unethical business practice' and according to AGDA's code of ethics a 'conflict of interest.'
    "2.2 Conflict of interest
    A Member shall not knowingly accept a position or commission in which a personal interest conflicts with professional obligation and duty."

    l suppose if an AGDA board member was to join this thread l am sure this would all become much clearer to me. l look forward to a response.

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  • chickyboo 18th February 2012 @ 10.40 AM

    I think the support is quite genuine. I don't think its exclusive to one educational institution. AGDA council members are made from different people in the industry, including those from different universities. AGDA has also provided talks at different schools eg. First Five Out at Billy Blue etc etc, so I think there's no exclusivity here. Tractor is a brand new finishing school and if AGDA wants to support it, then good for them!

    To me, I think the best thing we can do is to support one another instead of thinking of ulterior motives behind it.

    What is wrong with advertising AGDA anyways? I don't mind if more people were to join the bandwagon and go to such events, engage in dialogue about design and grow as an industry. Why do we need all this kerfuffle about favourites here... just sayin'

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  • KenSmith 18th February 2012 @ 9.32 PM

    Instead of crying about favouritism, perhaps we should actually congratulate Tractor on demonstrating real industry connections, something that every design college seems to boast about having.
    Or perhaps motivate students to start building their own industry networks.

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  • chickyboo 18th February 2012 @ 11.42 PM

    I agree. Being a Tractor graduate myself, I could confidently say that the guys from Tractor has the student's best interest at heart and genuinely care about design education. It's great to have something that the industry supports and actively participates in.

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  • Eris 19th February 2012 @ 8.10 PM

    That is all good and well but this is not a question of Tractor's code of ethics it's a question of AGDA's code of ethics.
    The fact still remains that AGDA board members appear to be gaining financially from Tractors success.
    Until an AGDA board member can respond, l am none the wiser than before my previous comment repeated below:

    It appears that AGDA VIC are exclusively supporting Tractor so that individual board members and ex-board members will financially benefit from Tractor's success. l am sure that is not 'fair play', 'unethical business practice' and according to AGDA's code of ethics a 'conflict of interest.'
    "2.2 Conflict of interest
    A Member shall not knowingly accept a position or commission in which a personal interest conflicts with professional obligation and duty."

    l suppose if an AGDA board member was to join this thread l am sure this would all become much clearer to me. l look forward to a response.

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  • chickyboo 19th February 2012 @ 9.12 PM

    *face palm*

    </rant>

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  • Mish 19th February 2012 @ 9.17 PM

    eris, u are making such a big deal out of this. i dont get u either. theres probably a lot of things you dont know n u should before u make those claims.

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  • Eris 20th February 2012 @ 3.41 PM

    Thank you Looney l thought l was going looney...

    Just in case AGDA are not aware of this forum and post l have emailed, secretariat@agda.com.au, gm@agda.com.au and editor.vic@agda.com.au so they can be have the opportunity to respond.

    l wait with anticipation.

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  • Looney 20th February 2012 @ 2.40 PM

    eris is asking a question, the size of the financial prize matters not one bit when you consider the kudos it gives both student and course

    i agree, a response from a board member would be responsible, helpful and the right thing to do, considering it has been asked on one of the few open forums in australia dealing with designers

    she is discussing a principal and no amount a face palming answers it, i think it is fair to ask in regard to other colleges and courses, why single one out?

    is it in fact part of a series of prizes? are they doing similar things in regard to other college courses?

    agda have made many things a point of principle, this is a point of principle

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  • chickyboo 20th February 2012 @ 5.45 PM

    Thanks for your reply looney,

    I am quite confused with her question about the corruption of AGDA in relation to a prize - or the principle of it. Perhaps I am overseeing this and considering that it is just simply support. As mentioned earlier, I don't see this as playing favourites and all schools have the opportunity to take initiative and ask for sponsorship. I would question further if one was denied sponsorship.

    Considering that Tractor Melbourne are needing more applicants and Tractor Sydney doesn't - why didn't AGDA NSW sponsor Tractor Sydney in rewarding the Scholarship Winner? One can argue your same 'unfairness' within the same school. But looking at the context, I would assume that Tractor took initiative and asked to be sponsored to encourage students to apply.

    But i also think there are many things to consider before making such claims. I thought it was a quick assumption. I have challenged her questions and yet to truly understand and agree to what she is saying.

    I do look forward to the answers they will provide to Eris. Don't get me wrong, I do want to understand where you're coming from Eris, and if it leads to a better understanding about our industry then good for us, but it seems like I have a hard time understanding or be convinced of your points made so far.

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  • noftus 20th February 2012 @ 6.58 PM

    This thread has made great popcorn reading material over the past few days.

    **In the real world**, sponsorship usually works by the party getting the benefit, doing the leg work to ask another party for assistance.

    eg. A gallery is hosting an opening night. They do the leg work and kindly ask beer company to sponsor drinks. Beer company obliges.

    To turn around and scream, "OMG OMG OMG CONSPIRACY!: BEER COMPANY ONLY SUPPORTS GALLERY (G)" is nothing short of idiotic on every level.

    I think the problem lies in the fact that Eris misguidedly believes AGDA is some sort of "design standards body". It's not. It's a non-profit organisation, run by unpaid councillors, for the greater good of our industry. Their support in one area is not mutually exclusive.

    Nothing is stopping other design colleges from asking AGDA VIC for help.

    Instead of "OUTING" AGDA VIC for actually helping out, you should be questioning your own head of design college, and ask why they haven't got off their ass to help you as a student. Your college is the one screwing you over.

    One more tip: If I were you, I'd also get over the whole unearned sense of entitlement vibe you seem to have going on. Attitude like that doesn't get you a job.

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  • Looney 20th February 2012 @ 7.04 PM

    noftus, i didn't read that at all, eris was asking a question and getting shot down for it, an answer can only come from one source, someone who actually knows about the situation

    bit harsh that last bit

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  • zack486 20th February 2012 @ 7.59 PM

    to me, the rise of more private design schools just takes advantage of the demand for education in design and doesn't address the issue of credibility of a designer having a qualification like a doctor, lawyer or accountant. if you needed a degree to get into tractor it wold be a different story. the agda membership just tops it off. with the best people in the industry teaching it, why then do a degree? if marketed well it cold become the standard in design education... the seal of approval. where does that leave design? the agda membership kind of makes it even more credible in a strange way. just my point of view

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  • chickyboo 20th February 2012 @ 8.27 PM

    I like u noftus

    Zack486: yeah u need to have completed at least a year of tertiary education. There is a criteria you have to meet though. You need to have an ego free approach to your work, be hardworking, keen to learn, and also have a strong folio to be selected.

    Its a finishing school, similar to AWARD. Good point though.

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  • chickyboo 20th February 2012 @ 8.27 PM

    Double post by accident. Delete

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  • noftus 20th February 2012 @ 10.28 PM

    Zack, that's the thing isn't it. In choosing to get into the (graphic) design profession, one chooses to go into an unregulated industry.

    In an unregulated industry, formal qualifications can mean so little.

    So what if a graphic designer doesn't have formal design qualifications? It doesn't affect their practical credibility. Answering a brief effectively and solving core problems is more important in our industry than academic rote learning.

    Private design colleges are a _response_ to the oversupply of design education. Each year 5+ public colleges in 3+ states take in, what, 30+ students each? Is there really that much industry demand for junior designers?

    Public design colleges just take advantage of the fact that all 18 yr olds who have an opinion, think they are a designer. Private colleges driven by industry, realise this problem, and attempt to filter the abundance in the best way any capitalist society would.

    So where does that leave design? Well we live in an age that has never been more democratic in finding real talent. Talent regardless of one's bank balance. All your need is a 1) website folio + 2) networking.

    That's why it shits me to bits when juniors, and other smartass designers get online, and all high and mighty behind their keyboard, and criticise AGDA with "what's in it for me?!?" line.

    What's in it for you? Does _networking_ have to be spelt out to you? More than any other, networking is your lifeblood in this industry, and to expect some sort of formal tick of approval from AGDA is beyond a joke.

    And it shits me even more when know-it-all uni kids start criticising (read yelling "OMG FINANCIAL CONSPIRACY!!!") movements such as AGDA, which is trying to fix the very problem we're all in. Not only is it unconscionable, it's bordering on defamatory.

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  • Eris 21st February 2012 @ 6.46 AM

    l think Australian INfront has to be congratulated on creating a public forum where 'all' designers can discuss topical issues.

    A few recent comments warrant a reply, the personal attacks do not warrant a reply.

    Noftus's comments -
    "In the real world, sponsorship usually works by the party getting the benefit, doing the leg work to ask another party for assistance.
    eg. A gallery is hosting an opening night. They do the leg work and kindly ask beer company to sponsor drinks. Beer company obliges."

    Yes Noftus, of course the beer company can support whoever they like, as they are a private enterprise...

    Let's try another hypothetical 'real world' example...

    The State Government are the sponsor of an exhibition where the artists are the politicians or members of the State Government.
    With this sponsorship comes the State Governments influence and networks. The State Government is using tax payers money and members money to fund the sponsorship of the exhibition. The exhibition is a success and the politicians sell many of their works but the money doesn't go back to the State Government it goes to the individual politician or member of the State Government. l think there would be a public outcry.

    But that is all just hypothetical.

    Back to the 'real world' example of Tractor & AGDA, l repeat my post.

    It appears that AGDA VIC are exclusively supporting Tractor so that individual board members and ex-board members will financially benefit from Tractor's success. l am sure that is not 'fair play', 'unethical business practice' and according to AGDA's code of ethics a 'conflict of interest.'
    "2.2 Conflict of interest
    A Member shall not knowingly accept a position or commission in which a personal interest conflicts with professional obligation and duty."

    l suppose if an AGDA board member was to join this thread l am sure this would all become much clearer to me. l look forward to a response.

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  • Luke 21st February 2012 @ 7.45 AM

    Eris is being shot down all around for asking some pretty fair questions.

    I'm definitely curious to hear a response from AGDA regarding Eris' comment.

    ::It appears that AGDA VIC are exclusively supporting Tractor so that individual board members and ex-board members will financially benefit from Tractor's success. l am sure that is not 'fair play', 'unethical business practice' and according to AGDA's code of ethics a 'conflict of interest.'
    "2.2 Conflict of interest
    A Member shall not knowingly accept a position or commission in which a personal interest conflicts with professional obligation and duty."

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  • Jem 21st February 2012 @ 8.11 AM

    Last year everyone was bagging out AGDA for being elitist, out-of-touch and pandering to a worldview of graphic design that simply doesn't apply anymore (although it appears from many of the posts in this thread that some of you wish it would, if only to justify the three years you spent in a degree course learning how to be a 'proper' designer, to which I say pipe down and be judged on your folio).

    Of course AGDA should be getting involved in courses at all levels and of all types. They should be involved with Award and Tractor and VCA and COFA and Billy Blue and Shillington and TAFE and Open Learning course and night schools. Everything. Perhaps as a response to the kerfuffle of the last 12 months this is only the first step in a new, welcome, direction.

    I say - with the proviso that somewhere in the confusion Eris has at least asked a question worthy of a response - let's help them get on with it and support the possibility of a new, well, *glasnost* for AGDA.

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  • Looney 21st February 2012 @ 8.15 AM

    ::That's why it shits me to bits when juniors, and other smartass designers get online, and all high and mighty behind their keyboard, and criticise AGDA with "what's in it for me?!?" line.::

    no answers to what might be an empty case, let the fire burn a bit more and chuck a few more insults

    can't see where anyone has said 'what's in it for me'

    if i'm a smart arse for never relying on agda or networking, so be it, if it is wrong to ask the original question that has remained unanswered, what does that say . . . and we all know members of the said organisation are here

    i did not criticise agda, i could quiet easily but that is not what this thread is about

    eris asked a question, has not yet stooped to the level of some of the responses and get's abuse but no answers, change the topic around to attacking her and 'smart arse designers' instead

    50% networking?? blimey no wonder i have only managed to survive 30 years in this industry so far

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  • noftus 21st February 2012 @ 6.03 PM

    Yeah fair call - sorry I didn't mean to make it personal.

    I agree to disagree.

    Again, apologies for the swipes.

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  • jimantonopoulos 21st February 2012 @ 8.03 PM

    Hi guys

    I think it's a fair question to ask, thanks Eris and Mish.

    It was my decision to offer support to give the top graduate a free membership at Tractor. We would have liked to offer a free membership to all participating students, but we couldn't afford to do that. 

    Saying that, we support all educational institutions in various ways through the year through holding events on campus, through the student council, speaking/lecturing, mentoring as well as offering free membership to the various awards that they hold each year.

    We have offered memberships to Swinburne, RMIT, VUT in the past and will continue to do so; including any other educational institutions who support graphic design in Victoria.

    Many of the people on Tractor's lecture panel have served on AGDA, myself included. I don't see anything wrong with this as we continually lecture/speak at universities public and private all the time. The fact that most of the panel has served on the AGDA council at some time in their history shows the dedication these people have in rolling up their sleeves and doing something for the industry.

    Tractor, like many of the educational institutions we work with have close industry connections and from time to time tap into these. There is nothing wrong with that either.

    If you have any questions about this, or anything else about AGDA Vic, we're always happy to have a chat. 

    You can email me direct through my profile on this website if you like, or you are more than welcome to come to one of our events or meetings as well to get an insight into how things are run.

    Thanks for the healthy discussion.

    Jim Antonopoulos
    AGDA Vic President.
    Exec. Creative Director, TANK Branding.

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  • Looney 22nd February 2012 @ 8.15 AM

    phew, some facts, cheers

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  • zack486 22nd February 2012 @ 8.49 AM

    i'm interested in becoming an agda volunteer. what can i do? i'm in hobart

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  • Eris 22nd February 2012 @ 10.35 AM

    Jim,
    I appreciate your response, however I still feel that the issues that have been raised in this thread have not all been addressed in your reply.

    Yes it is fair to say that AGDA offers their support and donates to some other colleges, and this is great to hear, however in this instance (with Tractor) there is a noticeable difference;
    The membership offered to Tractor by AGDA has clearly been used as a commercial incentive to get candidates for their course - unlike other AGDA memberships offered to the other colleges you previously mentioned.
    The fact remains that AGDA board members and ex-board members will, as lecturers, receive financial gain from the success of Tractor.

    I cannot see how this can be perceived as anything but a conflict of interest according to AGDA's code of ethics.
    So my question still remains unanswered, therefore the jury is still out.
    **It would be great if you could re-address the issue of conflict of interest only.**

    Perhaps this can be a catalyst for change and in the future we can see AGDA offering membership incentives to ALL colleges.

    I'm very keen to come along to one of your meetings to get more of an insight into how these decisions are made and to continue this discussion.

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  • chickyboo 22nd February 2012 @ 2.19 PM

    Thanks for your reply Jim. Much appreciated.

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  • camor 22nd February 2012 @ 3.53 PM

    Think I know where Eris is coming from, however have to mention that when i was going through uni AGDA did push events that were relative to us and was some support. This was a little influenced that our lecturer was a AGDA officiate at some level.

    You could argue case that being involved with Tractor and AGDA may have some conflict but I think that it would be so minimal and i think it is obvious that the intent of sponsorship and Tractor school are separate enough that you wouldn't exactly call it a selling of sub-prime mortgages to unsuspecting students.

    Good on Tractor for having some initiative in getting some sponsorship and good on AGDA for trying to connect with some of the younger design community albeit with some string pulling connections here and there. Who hasn't used some connections to there advantage at some point.

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  • OldSchoolNew 24th February 2012 @ 10.56 AM

    Hi everyone

    I feel quite ashamed at my tardy response to this discussion. I am almost too scared to say that Old School is yet another design school in melbourne:)

    Eris your question is relevant because in order to maintain its credibility as an ethical body it is important for AGDA to treat all schools fairly and equally. Why? because AGDA degrades itself as a credible body by appearing to show favouritism/nepotism. It does not look good to people who ask Why? But yes, we do need to get off our bum and talk to AGDA, it is not their fault completely.

    So Jim is right, in that schools do need to be proactive in getting in touch (i am still yet to do this so its not surprising that they are ignoring me:). I want to work with AGDA, I think it is important but I am currently overstretched but in time I will. It will be interesting to see what way shape or form this takes. But they do appear to be open minded. It would be wrong of me to expect them to do my work for me.

    Noftus made some good points, in that you would be shocked if you knew how many hi profile graphic design professionals are qualified architects, sound technicians, economists, software developers etc etc. With no formal qualification in design.

    I believe that what my school and Universities offer is providing a proper learning structure that enables students to learn to explore and be incredibly creative, so that they can develop remarkable project outcomes. You need to have this body of work under your belt so that you can go out and sell yourself. I am yet to see private colleges teach this level of required deep thinking to do this. (maybe I am wrong, but i have taught in 3 private institutions and and been interviewed by another. All were owned by people who had no idea about graphic design but plenty of skills about making money. Come to think of it one of the TAFES i worked for 2 years ago was even worse! They bled their teaching staff dry and it was all about their profit). I have worked in studios and had job interviews at studios where the poor so called designers all looked miserable and bored as the work was not creative, so i guess that is where all their poor students ended up because they had not learned to hone a creative idea. all schools have their place. i know that i have created my school out of my passion and philosophy which is based around my love of learning and getting an incredible buzz out of my students learning breakthroughs and the life long relationships I have with them as I watch them become incredibly successful human beings . Being a teacher is a position of privilege.

    When people continue to talk about "Industry" personally I get a bit frustrated, as I see it being made out of this bogey man that it is not really. Essentially this means that you are learning the bottom line stuff which I call pressure. How to negotiate with peers managers and clients. How to explain your solutions, and how to deal with PRESSURE! How to flow your work. (many creatives do not like this stuff but it is relevant . Everything has its place.

    anyway, thanks for reading my contribution i hope it helps. I need to keep up to date more with these forums. have a great weekend and thanks all for the discussion.

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  • sidnom16 24th February 2012 @ 1.24 PM

    Holy snapping!

    What a hilarious thread and then at the very end some fence-sitting waffle (think it's an ad?) from someone purporting to own a design school?

    My advice to "OldSchoolNew" would be to actually get your website designed before you start placing ads in forums?

    All the best with the continuation of this thread!

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  • Looney 24th February 2012 @ 1.54 PM

    yeah brilliant stuff sidnom, nothing constructive to say, quick nonsense post of sarcasm

    no web site of your own, all details hidden

    first post as well, great stuff

    i guess the 16 is your age

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  • Jem 24th February 2012 @ 2.04 PM

    I think it's his hat size.

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  • OldSchoolNew 24th February 2012 @ 4.29 PM

    thanks guys, yes agreed internet trolls have a way of distracting from the point at hand, and bringing down the tone of the whole USXP :) As I am fairly new to Australian in Front, it seems as though they are not very common, which is good to see:)

    have a great weekend everyone!!

  • comment
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